Run away or run back?

Ballards

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northwoodneil
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Run away or run back?

Post by northwoodneil »

Hello, new guy here but I have been lurking in the background. Today I found a ballard rifle, unmarked about 45 caliber. Serial #56xx. From what I can see it's all original. The counter guy wouldn't pull the action screw to see if it's cast or forged. 3 line roll mark not concave top. Curved butt stock beech front sight and the (cheaper) mid range tang sight. Small crack in stock wrist. Bore looks very good. The tag says 45 cal but I don't think a 45-70 would chamber. What other 45 caliber did they make? They're asking $1900 obo. The sights must be worth $400. So walk away or run back?
northwoodneil
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Re: Run away or run back?

Post by northwoodneil »

Forgot full octagon barrel I didn't get the length, long maybe 28?
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marlinman93
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Re: Run away or run back?

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If he wont drop the breech block to confirm if it's a forged frame, then I'd pass. A 3 line address usually means a cast action, and if it's any cast action in .45 there's an issue. Now it could be a cast #2 action in either .44 Long, or .44-40 WCF, as both were offered in the #2. If so it's OK, but should only be fired with BP loads, not smokeless.
You should be able to also cock the hammer and see if the back of the firing pin is rectangle or round. Rectangle indicates it's a #2 breech block, and thus likely a cast action. At $1900 it would have to be a very minty #2 to get that price. I saw a gorgeous #2 in .44-40 WCF, with midrange Gallery tang sight, and Lyman combination front sight at our monthly show today for $1350. I thought it was a great price for a very nice gun, with special sights.
Marlin lever actions 1870's-WWI, Ballards, and single shot rifles!
northwoodneil
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Re: Run away or run back?

Post by northwoodneil »

Thanks Marlinman. I'm a few hours away from the rifle now but will get back there in a week or so. I didn't look at the firing pin but did notice a shiny or "hit" spot ( small, maybe 3/32" around) at 6 o'clock where the cartridge rim would be. I guessed maybe it was from the reversible firing pin. I'm thinking this rifle is a #2. What would make a #2 into a #4 perfection? This gun is on consignment and the owner or store keep know nothing about it. The tag just says 45 cal. but if they just measured didn't a 44-77? have a 45 cal bullet. I really like the feel of this rifle and they don't show up often around here. It's not minty, but not beat up. Edges are crisp, roll marks a little light, I can see hints of case hardening but the bluing is mostly brown. If it was to turn out forged not cast is the price still to high? Thanks for your time and info.
northwoodneil
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Re: Run away or run back?

Post by northwoodneil »

From a different one of your posts I saw I believe it has a Brown style lever no hole that I noticed.
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marlinman93
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Re: Run away or run back?

Post by marlinman93 »

A Brown Mfg. lever may or may not have a hole for the frame stud. But all early Marlin #2's had a ring lever, which isn't a Brown type lever. The Brown lever forms a sort of ring, but the end is open, and not connected to the lever to make a complete ring. Later they went to the "S" shaped lever that was std. from around 1881 forward.
This is an early Brown lever on my #4 Perfection:

Image

This is the early ring lever:

Image


This is the typical S lever:

Image
Marlin lever actions 1870's-WWI, Ballards, and single shot rifles!
northwoodneil
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Re: Run away or run back?

Post by northwoodneil »

Thanks Marlinman. Very nice rifles. I found another Ballard that I think I like better. It's 22lr and since I collect gallery guns it's right up my alley. From all your posts here and ASSRA I believe it's an early (JM Marlin), flat top receiver, ring lever #3 in nice shape. You are a wealth of knowledge which is great since I can't afford $400-900 for Dutchers book and can't find one locally to look at. I may make a reduced offer on the other Ballard if it's still sitting on gun shops shelf in a month. Thanks again.
northwoodneil
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Re: Run away or run back?

Post by northwoodneil »

What rifle is in picture 2? That is exactly the configuration of the one I'm looking at.
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marlinman93
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Re: Run away or run back?

Post by marlinman93 »

northwoodneil wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 6:54 pm What rifle is in picture 2? That is exactly the configuration of the one I'm looking at.
Pic #2 is a cast #2 Ballard. Early pre 1881 manufacture for that ring lever, but not as early as pic #1 with the Brown lever. This single trigger lever was used late in the first year 1875, to 1881.
The Brown levers have been seen mostly below serial number 600, but occasionally see them into the mid 2000 range even! Marlin used up parts as needed, so they wouldn't toss an old Brown lever if they found one later.
Marlin lever actions 1870's-WWI, Ballards, and single shot rifles!
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