National Firearms/Marlin 1898

TommyKid · Post by **TommyKid** » Tue Dec 30, 2008 4:16 pm

I was at the local gun shop today and saw a really neat gun. The tag was marked as:
National Firearms
Marlin 1898
Black powder
On the gun itself was "National Firearms Co" and "12 ga."
116498 was stamped on the receiver
123461 M was stamped on the barrel
The gun has an English stock.
I was wondering if anyone can tell me a manufacture date for this gun. In doing some research, I have also seen there are several safety related items to check. I've seen conflicting shell sizes that the gun was made for as well. If the safety checks go well and I do purchase the gun, I was thinking of using 2.5 inch "lite" loads from RST Shells. I have an almost century old 16 ga. double gun (that was black powder proofed) that I use with the RST shells (6000 psi).
Thanks for the information,
Tom

Regnier (gunrunner) · Post by **Regnier (gunrunner)** » Tue Dec 30, 2008 6:23 pm

Tom;

By "English stock" do you mean a straight grip stock? If so, this is not a Model 1898 Marlin shotgun. The Model 1898 and Model 19 were both takedown, pistol grip stock guns. In the 12 gauge, takedown, straight grip stock, it would have to be the Model 21.
If Marlin serialized the National guns in with the Marlin line of numbers, this gun is close to the Model 21 area. The Model 21 was in the 1907 catalog only.
The "M" on the barrel serial number indicates a modified choke.
There are some issues with the safety checks and would be a good idea to follow them.
The Marlin shotguns were chambered for the 2 3/4 inch shell.
I hope this helps.

TommyKid · Post by **TommyKid** » Tue Dec 30, 2008 6:46 pm

Yes, I meant a straight-grip stock. Forgive my ignorance, but I'm not sure about the difference between a "solid frame" like the Model 17 and the take down version as with the Model 21. I plan on going back to the shop and making sure the safety checks I've read about check out. Thanks very much for your help.
Tom

TommyKid · Post by **TommyKid** » Tue Dec 30, 2008 7:59 pm

OK, I just read up on the difference between the solid frame and the take-down.
Thanks again,
Tom

TommyKid · Post by **TommyKid** » Fri Jan 02, 2009 9:11 am

One thing I forgot to ask. Can you shoot 2.5 inch shells in this gun? My thought being that the 2.5" will create less pressure than the 2.75", but I'm not sure if the gun will cycle properly with the shorter shells.
Thanks,
Tom

Regnier (gunrunner) · Fri Jan 02, 2009 12:20 pm

Tom;

The first catalog I grabbed was the 1911 issue, and according to it, Marlin stated that the Marlin shotgun can handle any 12 gauge shell so long as it does not exceed the 2 3/4 length.
I hope this helps.

TommyKid · Post by **TommyKid** » Fri Jan 02, 2009 8:46 pm

I went back to the gun shop today and checked on all the potential safety concerns. The first thing I did was to open the action, held the trigger back and slid the bolt forward until the bolt cleared the top of the hammer. The only time the hammer moved was when the bolt locked, then the hammer fell. I'm not sure if this constitutes the "hammer following along" with the bolt or not. The second one was, with the action open, apply pressure to the rear of the firing pin. From what I've read, the firing pin should not protrude from the breech face. The pin did protrude, perhaps a 32nd of an inch. I'm not sure if this constitutes a failure or would be enough to discharge a round. Next I closed the action slowly while applying pressure to the rear of the firing pin. As the bolt locked, the firing pin released. This appears to be normal and indicates that the breach lock is rotating properly. Finally, with the action closed and hammer resting on the firing pin, I could not open the action indicating that the recoil lock is functioning. So, how did the old gun do?
I've attached some photos as I'm still not sure if this is a solid or take-down frame. There sure seems to be a lot of folks out there that think firing one of these guns is basically suicide. I know a lot of folks also think it's plain crazy to shoot anything with a Damascus barrel as well. Then again, a service bulletin was never issued regarding guns with Damascus barrels.

Jim Susemihl · Post by **Jim Susemihl** » Thu Jan 15, 2009 12:03 pm

Tommy Kid, The shotgun that you show in your pictures is definately the same as a Model 21. It is a take down and to do so you push the pin at the front left side of the magazine tube and rotate and move the magazine tube forward. Then on the left side of the magazine just ahead of the receiver there is a small lever that sits just barrel side of the action bar. There is a notch in the action bar that you will see as you slide the bar forward. This lever should move outward and into the notch allowing you to move the slide forward enough to clear the receiver. Then you just unscrew the barrel from the receiver and she is apart. I have about a dozen old Marlin hammer pumps and I am not afraid to shoot the ones that I have gone through and made sure that everything works on them. I like the Winchester AA low noise/low recoil loads and they break clay targets and knock down upland birds well enough. The RST shells should be about perfect also. If they function through the action reliably there should be no problem.
Your description of how the gun acts through the safety checks is spot on. The most important to me is that the hammer will not fall until the gun is in battery. (IE locked up) I had a Model 42 open up on me when shooting it. I was lucky that it was with a low power load. It hurt but no damage to the gun and no injuries to me. The cause was old lube that had stiffened up in cold weather. The stiff lube cause the secondary safety sear to stick and not engage the hammer. I took it completely apart and cleaned and lubed everything and no problems since.
I read in a gun assembly guide about a Marlin Model 26 non-takedown shotgun. The writer noted that the Marlin gun had been condemmed by Marlin in a letter as not being shootable. This I am sure was a move to satisfy the lawyers. The writer said that the Marlin action is much stronger than the Winchester Model 97 and no one says that they are unsafe to shoot. The thing to remember is that everything MUST work porperly and there is no need to shoot magnum loads.
I hope this helps and if you get the gun make sure that it is clean and that everything works. Enjoy it. Regards Jim.

TommyKid · Post by **TommyKid** » Thu Jan 15, 2009 4:37 pm

Jim,
Thanks so much for the info. Yes, I did end up getting the gun. I just couldn't resist. I haven't shot it yet, but did end up getting some 2.5" RST shells. I'll see how they cycle. If not, then I'll try the 2.75" low pressure loads that RST also offers. The gun is squeaky clean and everything appears to be functioning properly. I'll make sure I stay on top of it as well and continuously check the infamous safety concerns. In all reality, the gun will get shot very little. Some trap here and there and a hunt of two a year. Funny I ended up getting it, because I'm really interested in old side-by-side doubles. What can I say? The old girl just spoke to me.
Thanks again,
Tom

Bob Smalser · Post by **Bob Smalser** » Thu Dec 10, 2009 8:57 pm

Has anyone ever wondered why vintage Marlin hammer pumps shooting old, 8k psi shells were all "widowmakers" that spit their bolt in your eye....

....when Marlin rifles through the Model 1936 with almost the exact same bolt design (if anything it's weaker) and lockup but shooting 35k psi shells were all great guns?

tide fan outdoors · Post by **tide fan outdoors** » Thu Feb 18, 2010 4:30 pm

I am very interested in the National Fire Arms Co. shotgun as well. I picked one up in a trade years ago and iyt has been sitting in my guns safe ever since. I am now ready to sell it but have no idea of the value. Mine is a bit different due to the fact it has both the cylinder bore barrel and a full choke barrel. The serial number on the gun is 115180. The condition is as good if not better then most I have been able to find pictures of. I am wondering what this setup is worth and if anyone knows of someone looking for one. Thanks for any info

jgr · Post by **jgr** » Sat Jul 31, 2010 9:05 pm

Jim Susemihl wrote:Tommy Kid, The shotgun that you show in your pictures is definately the same as a Model 21. It is a take down and to do so you push the pin at the front left side of the magazine tube and rotate and move the magazine tube forward. Then on the left side of the magazine just ahead of the receiver there is a small lever that sits just barrel side of the action bar. There is a notch in the action bar that you will see as you slide the bar forward. This lever should move outward and into the notch allowing you to move the slide forward enough to clear the receiver. Then you just unscrew the barrel from the receiver and she is apart. I have about
I hope this helps and if you get the gun make sure that it is clean and that everything works. Enjoy it. Regards Jim.

Question about re-assembly.
I've included the above quote to describe the disassembly.
The gun is a National Firearms 12g. sn 121810. The gun was being taken apart to remove and/or replace the plug in the tube magazine.The lever was moved outward into the notch in the action bar and the slide was successfully moved forward clearing the receiver. Subsequently when handling the gun the lever dropped on the table. I can't seem to find a way to put the lever on the action bar and reverse the procedure.
Also,never got to the original plan to remove magazine plug.What's the best way to do this?

Thanks in advance for any help,jgr

Marlin Firearms Collectors Association

National Firearms/Marlin 1898

National Firearms/Marlin 1898

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Re: National Firearms/Marlin 1898

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