Marlin and Annie Oakley

[marlin 1893]

I think maybe this needs to be a new post. How many Marlin rifles did Marlin present
to Annie Oakley.

[Regnier (gunrunner)]

Marlin 1893;

We know Annie had a Model 1889, serial number 98,560 that is listed in the factory records simply as "Annie Oakley" and there are photographs of her holding the gun. It is a .32-20 caliber gun with a 22 inch half octagon barrel. We know she used a Model 1891 to shoot the Ace of Hearts out of a playing card with 25 shots in 27 seconds at a distance of 12 yards. The same image was used on an Marlin advertising card. There is no record of the serial number of this gun. It was reported that Marlin delivered three (3) guns to Annie to use ( two .44 caliber and one .38 caliber) in a play in merry old England. In 1906, there was a rifle sent to Annie to which she replied she was indeed pleased with the very fine rifle. This gun was supposedly the factory engraved, gold washed '97 that sold a couple of years ago at James Julia's auction. There are some questions about the provenance surrounding that gun. Then there was the Number 5-4 factory engraved with gold and platinum inlaid, "C" checkered Model 1893 in .38-55, serial number 419,119 that was presented to Annie in 1917. This gun was sold at the same Julia auction. The 1893 brought $253,000 with buyers penalty and the '97 brought only $184,000 with the buyers penalty. I believe the questionable provenance kept the price down on the '97.
These are the guns known to have been presented to Annie from the Marlin Fire-Arms Company and the Marlin Firearms Company.

[marlin 1893]

Thanks for the reply: Those are the ones that I have found in my search but I thought
that there might be more. I agree about the Model 1897 that just sold at auction.I was
back yesterday on the auction site and found a second Marlin listed that also sold someone
said it brought $80,000.00 it was even more interesting it was a Marlin Model 39 that
Annie was thought to have used in 1922.The interesting thing about the gun is that the
serial number has the HS prefix. The sale is over but the listing is still up check it out.

[Regnier (gunrunner)]

Marlin 1893;

On the Model 39, I think you are mis-reading the description. Paul Fees is stating that the Model 39's were made to shoot modern high speed ammunition and guns with the HS prefix indicate that these guns are so made, not particularly this gun. The serial number of this gun that was sold, was a 4 digit serial number (1428 I believe) without prefix. This would make it an early gun, but it did not have a Marlin-Rockwell marked barrel as such an early gun might have. Another thing about that gun is the magazine tube. It appears to be a later style, not used on the early Model 39's. If the gun is in such wonderful condition, why was the magazine tube change out for a later style?
Again, other than a statement from the niece (and daughers of the niece) there is no proof that Annie Oakley ever owned this gun. I can make a written statement of whatever I want to, then sign it in front of a Notory Public, and have it notorized. The Notory is only notorizing the signature on the statement is my signature, nothing about the statement itself. If Jessie James mother would have had access to a Notory Public back in the day, think of all the guns Jessie James would have owned and have provenance from his mother to prove it. I had a chance to purchase one of Jessie's guns at the last Denver show...... and a Marlin at that.......what a missed opportunity!

[Wishbone]

Rick,
What kind of provenance did the Jesse James Marlin have ??

WB

[marlin 1893]

That could have been worded a lot better.I just read that the total sales for
Annie's goodies totaled for the day nearly $520,000.00. Nearly fifty percent
more than thought. By the way I have a Winchester Model 1894 30 W.C.F. thought
to have belonged to Tom Horn if anyone is interested? taking bids

[Regnier (gunrunner)]

Bob;

The was some kind of note inside the grips of the Marlin pistol that stated it was one of Jessie's guns. Another one sold by either his mother or widow to make money. Jessie probably never saw this gun, or even owned a Marlin handgun. Then again, maybe he did..........who knows!

Marlin 1893;

I registered on HA to view the larger photos and get the final prices. The Model 39 sold for about $83,000 and the '97 was just under $72,000 including buyers penalty. Now, I was wrong about the serial number. After viewing the larger photos, the Model 39 does indeed have an HS serial number prefix. This really does cause problems since the HS prefix came out in about 1932, and Annie Oakley died in 1926. Kinda hard for her to have used that particular gun in 1922 as the statement in the auction description would lead you to believe. Whoever purchased this gun has a case of fraud if they want to persue it. I would need to read the letters of provenance to see what the statements include. If anyone contacts me about it, I will certainly set them straight.........

[coltsixguns1959]

Heritage auctions in Dallas sold a fair amount of Annie Oakley items last weekend in Dallas.

[Regnier (gunrunner)]

I was on the road the past couple of days, and decided to contact HA and inform them of the conflict with the Model 39 and the facts of the situation. It will be interesting to see what their reaction will be.

[marlin 1893]

Let us know if you hear back from HA.They may not want to hear what you
have to tell them.You made a very interesting point about the letter to follow
these guns.I would thing and I am sure you would to that if the letter from the
family would have been a big plus they would have listed it on the site as well.
I can think of no reason to not.If the letter is correct it would have been a good
selling point. Why keep the letter hidden till after the sale.????

[Regnier (gunrunner)]

Marlin 1893;

I am sure I will get some kind of response, especially since I made it pretty clear that it was their reputation that was at stake for a fraudent description. I also mentioned that the purchaser should be informed of the mistake as well. That will be the interesting part, since it takes a gun that sold for $83,000.00 (including the buyers penalty, about a $75,000.00 hammer price) down to a gun that might bring $5,000.00 or LESS. No one wants to take that kind of hit, especially the auction house and the sellers!

[Regnier (gunrunner)]

I finally got a response from HA about the discrepancy between the manufacturing date of the HS serial number prefix guns and the date of Annie Oakley's death. They were very concerned and could not figure out how such a thing happened. They really believe that the HS guns were made in the early 1920's according to Paul Fees. But, they did say they were going to check it out to see if they did make a mistake and if they did, contact the winning bidder and cancel the sale.
They are to keep me informed. When I hear more, I will let you all here know what their answer is.

[marlin 1893]

Thats good Reginer: I am glad that they are willing to take your advise and consider that
they may have been misinformed or didn't have all the information needed. Even if they
had listed the letter as was to accompany the rifle one might have had more to go on.
I still belive most people have good intentions they just don't do there homework.
And anyone buying a highly collectable fire-arm is also responseable for doing their home-
work also.. At any rate you have tried to do the right thing and maybe the folks that bought
the rifle will be informed and they can make their own judgment. keep us posted if you learn
any more.

[Regnier (gunrunner)]

Marlin 1893;

I contacted a friend that has a more extensive catalog collection than I have for some information that I passed along to HA. My friend told me that he found information that shows that Remington started producing .22 caliber high speed or high velocity ammunition in 1930 (four years after Annie Oakley's death). He then told me that the first Marlin rifle able to use high speed ammunition was the Model 50, semi-automatic rifle and that was in 1931. He found an advertisement from May of 1932 stating that the Model 39 was now being produced able to handle high speed ammunition. The first Marlin catalog to mention the Model 39 capable of using high speed ammunition was the 1934 catalog.
Marlin must have had a supply of catalogs already printed, and since they basically did not change for quite a while, Marlin kept using old catalogs already on hand until the supply ran out then printed new ones with the high speed ammunition information in it. For several years during this time, all Marlin did was insert a new price listing page when necessary without having to change the printing in the catalogs.

[Regnier (gunrunner)]

I have been contacted by both HA and Paul Fees of the Cody Museum recently. The family of Annie Oakley still believes the gun in question was owned and used by Annie, and that it was returned to the factory for improvements (high speed ammunition ability) and was re-serialized at the time. To date, HA and not paid the family for the gun until the situation is cleared up. The buyer wants the gun to have been owned by Annie as well, and who wouldn't want a gun with Annie Oakley provononce.
I explained the serialization system of the Model 39 to Paul Fees and he was very receptive of the information. I also explained to HA that Marlin did not re-serialize guns that were returned to the factory for repairs or improvement. They want to take the gun apart to look for another, earlier serial number to prove the families "theory" of re-serialization. I contacted a member of the Association that has a rather extensive collection of .22 caliber lever action rifles to have him take some of his Model 39's with the "HS" serial number prefix to see if the "HS" was stamped on the inside serial number. This could be the families "out" and substantiate their theory if the inside serial number does not have the "HS" prefix.
So it is still a waiting game for now.