What to look for?

[SteveW]

While this is not a question, it might be of benefit to new collectors who look in here to discuss some common things to look for in a possible faked or 'put - together' Marlin. I suppose it could end up as a 'how to collect' post, too.

A friend once told me that I should buy a book every time I bought a gun. I would expand that to say buy 2 or 3 books every time you buy a gun. More knowledge is better.

I posted something I remembered from a gun show of a faked color cased Marlin on another thread. An unscrupulous seller had held a torch to an 1881 receiver to add by hand the various colors of case hardening. It was very 'feathery' around the edges, and once I had looked more closley at it, I was able to tell what a poor resemblance it actually was.

The only other attempted 'fake' I've encountered at a gun show was someone tying to palm off a 1953 Texan as a Marauder. Of course, the serial range was way off, and the barrel was too long. I told him it was not a Marauder and that if I saw him sell it, I would show the buyer what it really was so he could be taken to court.

He was quite unhappy about that, but I saw later he had removed it from his table. Ironically, it was a 1st year 35 Rem in a Texan and a nice one at that. If he had not tried to insist it was really a Marauder, I would have tried to buy it.

Anyone else have a 'fake' story to tell? SW

[Regnier (gunrunner)]

Steve;

One of the biggest things to watch out for is guns advertised as "Factory Engraved". I am seeing to many guns with engraving that is not factory, and attempted to be passed off as factory engraving.
There also seems to be a large number of straight grip deluxe guns showing up now too. One dealer in particular seems to have found a real cache of straight grip, deluxe checkered Marlin rifles. Far to many in one place for me to believe that all these guns are original.
Refinished guns are getting harder and harder to tell from the original too. I saw several refinished guns at the Denver show on one table, and the prices were like they were orginal finish. In a few years, after a little wear and tear and general aging, these guns will be almost impossible to tell from original finsh guns.
It is real easy to go on about fake guns, but the best defense is knowledge or finding someone who does know and ask their opinion. Never "take the plunge" if you have any doubts, and by all means, do not be pressued into a sale by someone that "has someone waiting to buy it if you do not". If he has someone, then why does he still have it?
I am always ready to help anyone that has questions. I really want to put those people out of business that wants to take someones hard earned money with a fake! I kinda enjoy putting these people in their places when given the chance. I have had to break a few hearts of collectors that had bought a "bad" gun too, and that is not fun. Fortunately, one fellow got his mone back after I told him his nice engraved Model 1894 was not original. I wonder where that gun is now?
Anyway, I hope this helps................

[SteveW]

Thank you! That is precisely the kind of reply I was hoping to get! Regarding non-original engraving, there must be a certain book or do-it-yourself engraving program with specific patterns as I have been seeing some engraving on older guns with extra-fat leaves on the engraved 'vines' or scroll work. (for lack of the proper term) The old engravers had much finer scroll work.

It was not a Marlin, but I saw a Spanish Ruby pistol that was marked" F.B. Radom" - who made a few of those, and they are fairly valuable. The twist was that the name had been added with a pantograph. Not the same look as a stamping at all.

At one time, I used to speculate in German military items. I was offered a certain dagger that looked okay, but the seller just did not. Smelling a rat, I looked the scabbard over carefully to find "Made in Japan" stamped on an interior surface of a snap on the leather strap. For such reasons, I always carry a small magnifier to gun shows. SW

[marlinman93]

A note on factory engraving, and this applies to most manufacturers, not just Marlin! Most factory engraved guns were done by more than one person, as borders, and repetitive parts were done by apprentices, and the more elaborate parts were done by the guild masters themselves. Rarely did somebody like Ulrich, Nimschke, etc. do the entire gun, so you'll notice the different depths. Often certain areas of factory engraving seems to be lighter, while other parts are quite deep.
In the faked guns, I've seen just the opposite. The entire engraving pattern is equal in depth, and obviously the hand of one person. The patterns are also spot on from the special order catalogs, whereas factory engraving often varied slightly depending on the engraver.
I've seen a lot of the engraved straight gripped Marlins too, as Regnier mentioned. I was offered one for purchase not long after buying the pistol gripped, engraved 1893 I presently own. I jumped at the opportunity, as the price was reasonble, but on closer inspection passed. I thought the metal looked too good for the finish of the wood. Maybe the wood was swapped, or maybe the engraving was added, but either way it gave me that "funny" feeling. The low price scared me too.
Great topic, and sound advice guys!

[Regnier (gunrunner)]

Gentlemen;

For those of you who were members of the Association in December of 1999, go to Volume 20, Number 2 of The Marlin Collector. I wrote an article about factory engraving and how to spot fake engraved guns.
The jest of the article regarding fakes goes to the repeated elements of the engraving. (especially borders, barrel engraving, etc.) These elements were accompolished with stamps, and were not engraved. Look at the fake guns and you will see that the faker tried to copy these elements but did not have the stamps, so tried to cut them. Now, no one can make each scroll or spiral exactly the same size, shape and depth each time which is a dead give-a-way. This is one of the first things I look at, and the fakes can be spotted quickly.
I hope this helps.

[marlinman93]

Great info Rick. I had forgotten about your article, and I'll have to return to it, and refresh my memory!

[Don Anderson]

I recall cruising the tabels at a show with Dick Rohal a number of years ago and we came across a Marlin Model '93 carbine with a 15" barrel. The seller was a pretty well known dealer and when we asked him if the barrel was original, he swore up and down the gun was right. We told him that Brophy had compiled a list of the serial numbers of the carbines with 15" barrels in order to get an exception for these particular carbines with the BATF. Then we told him the number of his carbine was not on that list and if a BATF agent were to check his table and not find that number on the list, he was opening himself up to confiscation of everything he had at the show plus a lot more grief to boot. When we walked away, he quickly pulled the carbine off the table. The next show, he was there again and Dick told me that same numbered carbine was on his table again, only this time it had a 20" barrel on it. So much for some of these dealers swearing on a bible that a gun is correct and you can take their word on it!

Don

[SteveW]

Yep! The Feds do not mess around with short firearms!! SW