Model identification

[vmicraig]

Hello from London. I have a newly acquired carbine which I believe is a early model Ballard Sporting rifle, probably sold from Bannermans or another surplus provider a century ago to the English or French. It looks nearly identical to the Ballard military Carbine. However, mine has no identifiable markings - no Ballard stamps, no subcontractor stamps, only the serial number atop the breech and corresponding on the top rear of the barrel - 8299. The matching 299 digits are stamped onto the hammer.

The rifle (Carbine?) was advertised as .44 and has a small folding rear sight marked 250. It has both swivels, rear and front. There are no identifiable cartouches or US stamp on the butt place, which pretty much assures me it likely wasnt military issue and is likely a sporting model, but the darn lack of markings has me stymied. For all I know, it could be aBallard first model, butits unmarked. Perhaps its a Newburyport model? Again it appears nearly identical to my military model, but instead of round/round barrel, it has an octagonal/round barrel.

I would be glad to post photos, but cannot figure out exactly how, as I dont see a simple attachment feature to this particular forum, which I just stumbled across whiel trying to do research. If anyone could walk me thru what I'm supposed to do to add photos, I would appreciate it. Thanks!

[marlinman93]

I use a free photo posting site (Imgur) to store my photos, and then grab links at the site to post in the forum.

As for your Ballard, it's not a Marlin made Ballard as all those are well marked, and none were ever built as carbines. There were 5 makers of Ballard rifles prior to Marlin taking over production, and they all built a carbine style rifle. Does yours have the dual firing system with a spur on the hammer to fire rimfire cartridges, and a percussion nipple underneath to fire with a cap also?
Pictures will help a lot, but without them it's tough to say which of the pre-Marlin makers did yours.

[vmicraig]

Thanks for the response. No, it's definitely not a Marlin - it's an early model carbine by one of several of the subcontractors who made them during the 1860's or at latest, early 70's production. It's not dual ignition.

The more I look at it, the more I feel it is a sporting model, made between the first model Ballard and the Military Carbine. George Layman’s guide is very comprehensive and breaks the models down specifically - idespite knowing it falls within the 1861-1873 variations only, none specifically address any of the models with missing stamps and no markings, so it’s almost impossible to narrow it down, as a couple models are very, very similar but can usually be separated out by markings, caliber and serial number.

In Layman's guide, the 1861-1873 variations include, in order:

1. Ballard First Model (no)
2. Ballard Sporting rifle (possible)
3. Ballard Military Carbine (unlikely but possible)
4. Ballard Military Rifle (no)
5. Ballard carbine or saddle rifle. (Possible)
6. Ballard Sporting rifle (possible)
7. Ballard Military Rifle (no)
8. Ballard Midrange target model (no)

I cant register with imgur being overseas (firewalls I believe) but I'll try dropbox and seee if that works.

[vmicraig]

[marlinman93]

Being strictly rimfire, and with no markings, my guess would be it's a Ball & Williams that were made 1862-1865. There were a couple others making them at the same time, but they were marked with their company stamp.
Your image link doesn't work.