model #27

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model #27

Postby sanger » Sat Dec 04, 2004 3:48 pm

I was just handed a Marlin #27-S about an hour ago that belonged to my great Grandfather. Can anyone pass on any infomation to me on this. I'm looking forward to firing off a few rounds just to make him happy.
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Postby marlinman93 » Sat Dec 04, 2004 4:17 pm

The model started out as the model 27 in 1909, and with the improved safety as the 27S in about 1911. It was made up to WWI, and again after the war until 1932. The calibers were .25-20, .32-20, and .25 Rim Fire. Hopefully your's is not the .25 rimfire, as the ammo is tough to find.
The model 27/27S was around longer than any other Marlin pump action rifle. They are very solid guns, and have a good reputation for quality, although they were never a high dollar item.
These guns were available in either full octagon or round barrels, of 24" length. Special sights, checkering, and engraving were optional on earlier guns, but post WWI era guns tend to have no special options, except sights. Only straight grip models were made.
The 27 was designed by John Marlin and LL Hepburn. Hope this helps.
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Postby sanger » Sat Dec 04, 2004 5:50 pm

Thanks for the info...maybe this is a dumb question... how do I tell if this is a "rim fire".
I can't find any serial #. it does have the pat. dates of:
Aug. 12 1890, Mar. 1 '92, june 8 '97, Nov. 28 1904 on the barrel.
Thanks again,
Mark
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Postby Regnier (gunrunner) » Thu Dec 09, 2004 5:42 pm

Sanger;

The caliber should be stamped on the side of the barrel or on the top flat, just in front of the receiver. The serial number is under the butt stock on the sides of the receiver tangs. You have to remove the butt stock to see it.
I hope this helps.
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Marlin No. 27S Pump rifle 32-20

Postby Alan » Sat Feb 05, 2005 9:37 am

I have a Marlin pump action rifle 32-20 caliber, Model No. 27 S. Its in excellent condition, functional, and all original, can anyone tell me what its value is? Can anyone offer any detailed history? It has "Special Smokeless Steel" engraved on the side of the octogon barrel near the breech. I cant find a serial no.
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Postby Sure-Shot » Sat Feb 05, 2005 4:48 pm

Prior to (I think 1968) there was no law requiring serial numbers and that step was skipped on many low caliber rifles as a means of cheaper manufacture.
You may need a magnifying glass if the area is worn to see the caliber. If you look at the firing pin, it is small round for centerfire to hit the primer, if it is rimfire it will look like a small flat screwdrive head (in most cases) and will hit the rim area instead of just the primer area.
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Postby marlinman93 » Sat Feb 05, 2005 8:20 pm

All the model 27S' have a serial number. You'll need to pull the buttstock, and the serial number is located on the left side of the upper tang.
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Marlin No. 27S Pump rifle 32-20

Postby Alan » Sun Feb 06, 2005 9:14 am

Marlinman,

Thanks for your time to reply. I have been interested in readng all your replies on a number of topics, you seem very knowledgable.

Please take time to analyze my following essay, and offer any opinion.

I'm considering a purchase of the rifle, they want 500.00, it is in excellent cond, 90% blue, wood original w/normal darkness from handling and slight nics and dings here and there, no cracks, has metal buttplate, no rust anywhere, some tiny dark spots here and there where rust might have formed over the years, has original open sights positioned perfectly on center front and rear, the rear sight is set at its lowest elevation setting. I dismantled the rifle with the two thumb screws, the large round one has good notches to hold it and the front spin nut has not scarred the side plate at all, the assembly is very tight, however firing the gun 6 times loosened the front nut slightly downward. The inner parts are still blued and showing normal contact wear where they should, the extractor and ejector are both very strong. The barrel is very bright with many twists of rifling, I cant tell really how worn the rifling is because I dont know what they should look like as far as definition, but compared to other guns I have it looks very good and not worn as evidenced by its accuracy.

The magazine functions perfect locking both in and out. Some of the material I've read suggest that the little slide button on the right side plate above the trigger is a safety, however the only function I can derive from the slide button is to lock/release the pump action when loaded and cocked. Would keeping the pump locked when loaded be considered a safety of sorts?

I shot the gun one full magazine, it functioned perfectly, I hit a 14" metal disc standing position off shoulder, 100yds 6 for 6, I was amazed how well it handled and is not loud at all, almost no recoil. It comes with partial box ammo (30 rounds) Remington 100gr soft tip the box is marked 17.50 and looks quite worn from storage in the hard plastic carrying case, no papers etc. The price of the ammo would suggest that it has not been fired it quite a while. Where is a good source of ammo now? Do you think ammo will be available in the future at a reasonable price, it is now 20/25.00 box. Would it be possible to get an owners manual for the rifle?

From what I can read a price of 400.00 would be more accurate however the only ones I can find for sale are 25-20 calibers. I have a book "Modern Guns" by Russell Quertermous a couple of years old that suggest excellent condition is 315.00, very good 250.00.

Do you think the serial no. under the buttstock would have a bearing on its worth, I would hate to mess up a screw getting it off before I buy it, the srews appear to never have been removed. Ir the ser. no. is important I will attempt to get it.

Would you offer personally or direct me to more information about the rifle's worth and history? I would offer to pay you for your advice and help.

I will need to make a decision by tonight about the purchase.

Thanks,
Alan
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Postby Sure-Shot » Sun Feb 06, 2005 11:28 am

1. 32-20 is a great cartridge for plinking or varmiting, is available and easy to reload for.
2. My 2004 Catalog of Firearms has a excellent condition price of $350.
3. These were made between 1910-1932.
4. There are not very many excellent condition pumps from that era.
5. Only you can decide what you are willing to pay for it.

I have paid more than I should have for rifles that are hard to find etc and have bought a lot more at or below what they are worth according to the books. Picked up a Remmington pump in 32-20 that is in good condition last month for $200. Not a Marlin but definately a shooter.
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Marlin No. 27S Pump rifle 32-20

Postby Alan » Sun Feb 06, 2005 11:53 am

Sure Shot,

Thanks for your reply, I value the info greatly.

I'll update you on how I come out with negotiations on the price.

Do you think from my description without a pic that it would be in the excellent condition category? What is criteria for "excellent" condition.

I dont have a digital camera or I would post a pic, Ill make a regular film pic and post in the future for you to see.

By the way I am in Kentucky.

Do you think I can obtain manuals and or history through the Marlin Collectors association or another source?

Thanks,
Alan
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Postby Sure-Shot » Sun Feb 06, 2005 12:49 pm

Ebay or just asking here (someone may have one) is most likely for the manual. The best book on Marlins is Marlin Firearms, a history of the guns and the company that made them, by Lt. Col. William S. Brophy. You may be able to take a look at it at your local library or they may be able to obtain a copy. You can purchase the book through the collectors association. It is just shy of 700 pages on Marlins, there are a few errors but it is the most informative book available now.

It is always hard to place a value on something one can't look at. Issues that come up on value most often, reblue - reduces value, is it all original sights changed, wood changed, things like that; and how much finish.
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Marlin No. 27S Pump rifle 32-20

Postby Alan » Sun Feb 06, 2005 2:04 pm

Sure Shot,
Thanks again.

Does anyone out there have a manual for the Marlin 27S pump 32-20 rifle? and cost?
What is the process by which to purchase the Marlin Firarms book you mentioned by Brophy from the association?

I feel comfortable at this point that the gun is complete original in all respects. The gentleman that owned it was approx 84, whick puts him born in 1920, lived in Michigan and came to KY for retirement, brought the rifle with him, he told his neighbor which is my cousin, his hunting fishing buddie, before he died that he had owned the rifle for some 50 years, and wanted him to have it, didn't mention where he acquired it, he has killed deer with it as well as his wife hunted with him and took deer also. My cousin has it for sale now in need for funds.
The sights look original, simple blade front sight, simple dovetailed into barrel rear sight with manual ramp/step up elavation with a tiny widage insert screw secured rear sight movable slot. Sound original sights to you?

I would also ask, when disassembling and reassembling the two piece receiver, is there a proper sequence as to which thumb screw, either the rear round one, or front blade spin type that should be tightened first to assure stability? It just accured to me that one might should be tightened first to stablize the other. Just wondering.

Oh, by the way what are the two tapped srews on top of the receiver for? Scope or peep sight assembly?

Also would anyone offer advice as to whether historically are there any certain parts that I should acquire, while they are available, to remain with the rifle from now on?

You have been very kind and helpful.
Alan.
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Postby Sure-Shot » Sun Feb 06, 2005 3:58 pm

Click on Reigner on the post above and email him. He should be able to help with gitting the book.
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Postby marlinman93 » Sun Feb 06, 2005 10:37 pm

Alan,
The little button on the side is as you suspected, a safety of sorts, but not a safety in that it doesn't stop the gun from firing, but releases the action when the hammer is back.
A gun in 90% condition is definitely in excellent condition, and you'll be hard pressed to find one in better shape. Most Marlin pumps are usually pretty well used, as they were working guns, and never considered anything special back then. Now to find one that is 90% is definitely special!
As Sure Shot said, it's tough to figure if the price is correct. It may well be higher than what various references state, but I think from what I've seen, Marlin pumps get better prices than any of the posted values. If you like this gun, you should probably get it, as it will only go up in value. Good guns tend to do that much faster than clunkers.
Ammo for the .25-20 is a bit spendy, and unless you start reloading, I don't know what other cheaper option you might have.
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Marlin No. 27S Pump rifle 32-20

Postby Alan » Sat Feb 19, 2005 10:51 am

Marlin Man,

Thanks for your reply, I havent been online lately.

I purchased the rifle, I like it very much and paid 475.00 for it and a partial box of shells.

Should I shoot lead bullets or jacketed bullets in the rifle, which is best for the rifling?

The finish on the metal of the barrel and reciever is so good that as I sit in my chair watching TV and holding the gun, I can see the reflection of the tv image in the side of the barrel and receiver, thats good isnt it?

Thanks for the advice on the saftey, yes I had just figured out what it actually does like you said allows the action to be opened, and it wont fire unless it is completely closed and locked in place, works precise.

If I may, I would like to ask another question, what are the two tap screws on the top of the receiver for, vernier sights or a scope mount? There are also two little screws on top of the tang in addition to the stock anchor screw.

Is there some type of optional sights or a scope that can be acquired?

The rifle performs wonderfully, I have now stepped back as far as 152 steps, and can consistently hit the 14" steel farm disc blade, ringing it like a churck bell, Im holding dead on and aiming just at the top of the blade, standing position, it would appear that the performance of the little 32*20 cartridge has been optimized by the 24" barrel and evidently has perfect rifling.

I appreciate you responses.
Thanks,
Alan
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