Barrel length

[Mountaineer]

Hello,

New to this forum and looking into buying a Marlin Ballard. Since the rifle has a shorter barrel as is mentioned in the old catalogues I wonder if there is a way to find out if the barrel has been shortend during is life or if it was a special order and still original?

Thanks,

Mountaineer

[marlinman93]

Hello,

New to this forum and looking into buying a Marlin Ballard. Since the rifle has a shorter barrel as is mentioned in the old catalogues I wonder if there is a way to find out if the barrel has been shortend during is life or if it was a special order and still original?

Thanks,

Mountaineer

There are no records on Marlin Ballard rifles, so the only way to know it a close examination of the barrel, and front sight dovetail to determine if they are done as the factory would do it. But if it's altered correctly then it's impossible to tell if it's original, or just cut down correctly.
As with most Marlin rifles, a Ballard could be special ordered with a shorter barrel, but they were usually cut in 2" increments, so a sure giveaway is if the length is an odd number of inches. But barrels are rarely exactly even inches also, so a 30" barrel is often @3/16" over the 30", or 28", etc. length. Front sight dovetails are also very commonly centered at 7/8" to center from the end of the muzzle. Occasionally very early models I see are 1" to center. Also on a Ballard Long Range #7 with 34" barrel the barrels are exactly 34" as Long Range rules set maximum barrel length at 34", so never over that.
That's about as close as can be determined, so might help if it doesn't meet any of those criteria.

[Mountaineer]

Thanks for the clear reply, the rifle in question is most likely a no 9 Union Hill, according to the current owner the barrel is 24" and has as caliber 32-40. Will ask if he can measure where the front sight is in relation to the muzzle. But as you said when it is done proper there is no way to tell if it is modified or not. Maybe the form of the crowning can shed some light on this?

Thanks,

Mountaineer

[Regnier (gunrunner)]

Mountaineer;

Marlin rifles do not have a crown. The end of the muzzle is flat. Also, another way to tell if the barrel has been cut is to remove the front sight and see if there is blue in the dovetail, and if there are proper milling marks in the slot. If the dovetail is hand cut, then the proper milling marks will be absent.

[marlinman93]

Hopefully the seller is measuring the barrel length correctly also! A lot of people don't and they measure from the muzzle to the front of the receiver. That leaves about 1.5" not accounted for on a Ballard.
This is a correct muzzle on my Ballard #7 Long Range. Anything else is incorrect.

[Mountaineer]

Thanks again for the help, I had a confirmation that it is indeed a no 9 Union Hill, the distance from the muzzle to the center of the front sight is 2 centimeter or .787", just a little bit shy of the .875" you mentioned. There are still some doubts in my mind if I want to make the 200 mile trip to have a look at the Marlin Ballard

Mountaineer

[marlinman93]

I'd bet it's been shortened, but it depends on what the seller is asking as to whether I'd make the trip to buy it or not, and of course the condition and features of this Ballard also. The Union Hill was made as a #8 with set triggers, or #9 single trigger, so a #8 Union Hill is more desirable than a #9. It will always be a shorter barrel, but if the price is adjusted for that I'd still want it. But then I've got a few spare Ballard barrels, so I could fix the short part easily too.

[Mountaineer]

Adding all things up I think you are right about the shortening, on one of the pictures a small chamfer on the OD of the muzzle is visible. (can't post pictures??) It is also possible that the muzzle has been skimmed, this could be the case when the barrel is shorter by the same or almost the same difference as the dimension from muzzle to the center of the front sight. The ifle has a gallery peep sight (no scale on it) and a Lyman Ivory bead front sight. According to the owner the bore is excellent, pictures show a nice blue-ish brown colour on the barrel, minor wear of the octagonal edges, the screw heads are not untouched but it looks like someone has taken good care of it. As for the price that is difficult, these rifles don't come up for sale in Europe on a regular basis, it is well above 2500 Euro. It is however more or less in line with what I can find on US based websites
The man has also another nice rifle for sale, not a Ballard but a Maynard 1873. Also in good condition. Have at least some nice things to look at when I go there.

[marlinman93]

Adding all things up I think you are right about the shortening, on one of the pictures a small chamfer on the OD of the muzzle is visible. (can't post pictures??) It is also possible that the muzzle has been skimmed, this could be the case when the barrel is shorter by the same or almost the same difference as the dimension from muzzle to the center of the front sight. The ifle has a gallery peep sight (no scale on it) and a Lyman Ivory bead front sight. According to the owner the bore is excellent, pictures show a nice blue-ish brown colour on the barrel, minor wear of the octagonal edges, the screw heads are not untouched but it looks like someone has taken good care of it. As for the price that is difficult, these rifles don't come up for sale in Europe on a regular basis, it is well above 2500 Euro. It is however more or less in line with what I can find on US based websites
The man has also another nice rifle for sale, not a Ballard but a Maynard 1873. Also in good condition. Have at least some nice things to look at when I go there.

Away from the gun auction sites here in the USA, gun shows have Ballard rifles in a huge variety of price ranges. I see Union Hill models sell anywhere from as low as $1700 to twice that. Prices mostly vary on originality, so one that's been shortened, and doesn't have the original standard sights will garner less. The graduated peep you mentioned wasn't standard for a Union Hill as they came with a vernier peep sight. And front sights were a windage globe, not an ivory bead. Seems someone robbed the original sights off this one also.
I picked up a very nice Ballard offhand rifle in May at a gun show. It was missing the forearm, but otherwise a wonderful condition Ballard. I have several dozen, and this one puzzles me as it doesn't fit into any model designation Marlin Ballard I know of? It was a whopping $1400. Receiver is like a Union Hill, but buttstock is heavier, and buttplate is a German style. Barrel is a 34" half octagon that would be special order length.